Barline keeps appearing at end of blank measure at end of line

[Paulbrainard]

I have a chart with some 6-bar phrases, so to get 3 bars per line I am just leaving the 4th bar blank, or else doing 4 bars then 2 bars/2 blank. But I am finding that sometimes when I add a barline at the beginning of the next line, this causes one to appear at the end of the blank measure preceding it (at the end of the previous line) - which of course I do not want. In some cases I can delete this extra bar line, which may cause the next line's initial barline to disappear as well, but I can add it back without the extra one reappearing. However, the next time I edit the chart, that mystery barline does reappear and I have to go through this procedure again (it will save & display without it...)

BUT sometimes I cannot get the extra barline to go away without also losing the next line's initial one, no matter what I do. Seems as if the program just considers them the same line. If I select that last cell of the blank measure, the right barline symbol is not blue as it would be normally if there is one there. . . I am noticing this currently on a chart with three spots like this in it. The first one is the first situation (I can delete the extra barline,) and it is 2 bars of chords then 2 blank. The second spot I cannot delete it no matter what, it is 3 bars plus one blank. And the third spot it isn't a problem at all...this is also three plus one.

The first & third spots both end their filled bars with a double barline, and also have an extra space before the next line. The second spot however is just a normal barline and no extra space between it and the next line - not sure if these differences are related to the different behaviors.

Any solution to force a right barline to NOT appear like this?

 

[pdxdjazz]

For assistance with a chart, please post the chart so it can be downloaded and opened in the editor.
)BOB

 

[Paulbrainard]

I have tried but keep running into problems adding an attachment - if I browse/choose/upload the ireal pro html file it just never appears in the attachments field. Tried a pdf generated from the program as well but got an error that it was too big. Have tried both on ipad/safari and PC/Chrome.

Maybe the problem uploading the chart file is this: "Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt zip" - Since ireal pro seems to save its charts in html format how can we upload them?

 

[pdxdjazz]

I have tried but keep running into problems adding an attachment - if I browse/choose/upload the ireal pro html file it just never appears in the attachments field. Tried a pdf generated from the program as well but got an error that it was too big. Have tried both on ipad/safari and PC/Chrome.

Maybe the problem uploading the chart file is this: "Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt zip" - Since ireal pro seems to save its charts in html format how can we upload them?

Maybe the problem is that you aren’t following the posting instructions (check out everything that's hiding behind the question-mark at the top of most any app page) or this:
https://technimo.helpshift.com/hc/en/3-ireal-pro/faq/317-share-song-playlist-to-forums/?p=ios

)BOB

 

[Paulbrainard]

I did try but have not been able to upload the file, the attachments page states "Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif irb jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt zip" and it will not accept the html file used by ireal pro, and the pdf file it generates is too big. Is there another way?

 

[pdxdjazz]

I did try but have not been able to upload the file, the attachments page states "Valid file extensions: bmp doc gif irb jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt zip" and it will not accept the html file used by ireal pro, and the pdf file it generates is too big. Is there another way?

Yes. Follow the instructions in the link posted in the post preceding yours.
)BOB

 

[Paulbrainard]

Oh ok, I didn't gather that attaching a file in a thread here was dependent on uploading it to the forums from the app - I thought that was for publishing your chart to the public. Maybe the attachment dialog here would be a good place for that info? (also sorry for the duplicate post, my original reply was waiting for admin approval and didn't show up until I made my second one today. . .) Will try that.

 

[Paulbrainard]

Don't talk (barlines) - Brian Wilson - Tony Asher

 

[Paulbrainard]

Also after messing with it a bit I have ended up with an extra barline in the middle of the 5th line, which I can't get rid of. The cell on each side shows no barline (the icon is blue in the editor) maybe this is related?

 

[Paulbrainard]

Tried a few more things - changed the two 3-bar lines to a 4 and a 2, no extra barline appeared there. Was able to remove the first one but I expect it will still reappear when I edit the chart. Also got rid of the extra one in the middle of the line by deleting the contents of that cell, then the barline correctly didn't appear when removed - maybe they get attached to the cell contents somehow?

Don't talk - Brian Wilson - Tony Asher

 

[pdxdjazz]

If you shared only an image of the chart in question, the whole chart would need to be entered in the editor one step at a time in order to make/try changes to it. Posting the chart correctly allows others to easily download, play and edit.

The Single-bar line closing the measure at the end of a system (line) and starting the measure at the beginning of the next system is (musically) the same barline. (and is automatically placed) That's why it's sometimes necessary to end/start systems with a double-bar. (I'd add a double-bar at the start of your 1st C-section)

Sections are usually opened and closed with double bars.

Chart Layout Conventions
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/iReal-b-layout-conventions&p=301.194/#post-301

Even though left and right bar lines serve the same function, the editor treats them separately when deleting. It can get confusing. You can accidentally superimpose two, delete one...but it seems to still be there.

In iReal pro the V-mark (verse) functions the same as the IN-mark = play only once unless instructed differently by a DC.
When used to designate a verse/chorus format the player may function differently than you expect.

https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Verse-Chorus-(V-C)-vs-A-B.18217/

Did you see this?
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads...n-My-Shoulder)-Brian-Wilson-Tony-Asher.25801/

)BOB

 

[Paulbrainard]

Sure I understand it is functionally the same barline, but in the situation where you want to have only 2 or 3 bars on a line, since there are a fixed number of cells per line and the work-around is to leave the last bar or two blank, then having that first barline from the next line display at the end of the blank bar on the previous line is confusing for the player. Makes the blank space look like part of the form. Musically speaking it's really the ending barline of the 3rd bar that is the same as the beginning barline of the next line.

Adding to my confusion working on it is the fact that the editor's barline button would be blue in spite of there being a line there. BTW I tried from the cells on both sides of it. Were you able to clear the mid-line barline in my example? I could not until I cleared the cell content completely. Also what about the one barline that I could delete, then create the beginning one on the next line without it reappearing - but it would reappear the next time I edited it? Seems like a bug.

As far as using double-bars between sections, seems to me that is a matter of preference (I typically do with manuscript but on this format it seems to add clutter to me) but in any case would that affect the behavior of the other barlines? In other words, if I closed out a section with a double-barline at the end of the 2nd or 3rd bar (followed by a blank one) and began the next section with a barline, would that double-barline prevent the leading barline of the next section from also appearing at the end of the previous line?

[EDIT: what am I talking about, I did put doulbe-barlines at the ends of the sections. . .)

As far as the V mark & repeats, I'm not using this for play-along so for clarity to the (contemporary) musicians it makes more sense to call it a verse, as I believe Brian Wilson would!

I had not seen that version. I think it's missing some of the changes - I'll cross-post mine to it. Thanks. It's a very cool song, there's a great "behind the music" episode out there on how it was recorded.

Thanks for the help. I think this is a really great app & one of my favorite things about it is being able to create these "sharpie" style charts, which you can't get out of Finale et al.

 

[pdxdjazz]

Sure I understand it is functionally the same barline, but in the situation where you want to have only 2 or 3 bars on a line, since there are a fixed number of cells per line and the work-around is to leave the last bar or two blank, then having that first barline from the next line display at the end of the blank bar on the previous line is confusing for the player. Makes the blank space look like part of the form. Musically speaking it's really the ending barline of the 3rd bar that is the same as the beginning barline of the next line.

Adding to my confusion working on it is the fact that the editor's barline button would be blue in spite of there being a line there. BTW I tried from the cells on both sides of it. Were you able to clear the mid-line barline in my example? I could not until I cleared the cell content completely. Also what about the one barline that I could delete, then create the beginning one on the next line without it reappearing - but it would reappear the next time I edited it? Seems like a bug.

As far as using double-bars between sections, seems to me that is a matter of preference (I typically do with manuscript but on this format it seems to add clutter to me) but in any case would that affect the behavior of the other barlines? In other words, if I closed out a section with a double-barline at the end of the 2nd or 3rd bar (followed by a blank one) and began the next section with a barline, would that double-barline prevent the leading barline of the next section from also appearing at the end of the previous line?

As far as the V mark & repeats, I'm not using this for play-along so for clarity to the (contemporary) musicians it makes more sense to call it a verse, as I believe Brian Wilson would!

I had not seen that version. I think it's missing some of the changes - I'll cross-post mine to it. Thanks. It's a very cool song, there's a great "behind the music" episode out there on how it was recorded.

Thanks for the help. I think this is a really great app & one of my favorite things about it is being able to create these "sharpie" style charts, which you can't get out of Finale et al.

if I closed out a section with a double-barline at the end of the 2nd or 3rd bar (followed by a blank one) and began the next section with a barline, would that double-barline prevent the leading barline of the next section from also appearing at the end of the previous line?

Yes.

In iRp you gotta choose, would you rather have the confusing blank measure and orphan single bar or the “clutter” of a double-bar at the start of the section.

You can certainly post “read-only” charts that don’t correctly play in the player, but....when you share charts here, remember that other users may wish to practice (or sing) along with the player.

It's best to use the correct A B C format and then use text to label VERSE and CHORUS if you want to.

)BOB

 

[Paulbrainard]

Oh I didn't realize text labels were available. Still getting the hang of it. . . doesn't look like they can be enclosed or highlighted?

But, I was running into these extra barlines even with double barlines at the end of the previous section. And that other one was in the middle of a mid-line bar between two normal barlines. So something is going on there.

 

[pdxdjazz]

Oh I didn't realize text labels were available. Still getting the hang of it. . .

Previously suggested

(check out everything that's hiding behind the question-mark at the top of most any app page)

It's a process... there's a lot to learn!
)BOB

 

[dflat]

...Also what about the one barline that I could delete, then create the beginning one on the next line without it reappearing - but it would reappear the next time I edited it? Seems like a bug.
...

The idea behind a single left barline at the beginning of a system (new line) creating a right barline at the end of the system above (at the right end) is this:
When you are adding [chords ... Next, next] ... left barline, [chords ... Next, next] ....left barline, you can do this quickly without having to think about the location of the cursor (moving to the next measure or system). No need to add the single right barline at the end of any system because it is created automatically.
If you are starting a new line with a left double barline, then normally you would have ended the previous measure (system above, at the right end) with a right double barline or closing repeat barline.