Bernard LESIUK
New member
Help! What does a TRIANGLE mean in a chord ? Ex :
F triangle 7
F triangle 7
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Triangle (Delta) chord symbol
- Thread starter Bernard LESIUK
- Start date
Means major, so in your example it is Fmaj7.
Sometimes you read the triangle as implying the (maj) 7 and/or 9 anyway.
EDIT: meaning F triangle ... Fmaj7
(some might play Fmaj9)
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I was not clear was I? I agree with you all.
What I meant was if there is no 7 or 9, you just see F triangle for instance, then the maj 7 (perhaps maj 9) is inferred.
I will go back and edit underneath (the link is dead so deleted it, thanks.)
On Mac, use shift-6 - the ^ symbol.
What I meant was if there is no 7 or 9, you just see F triangle for instance, then the maj 7 (perhaps maj 9) is inferred.
I will go back and edit underneath (the link is dead so deleted it, thanks.)
On Mac, use shift-6 - the ^ symbol.
Bobsax
Well-known member
Every time I see the triangle with a 7 I have a little pang of annoyance 
I learned about the triangle from Abersold in the 70's and when I went to Berklee I was told to never use it because it could be interoperated as a circle or dim chord.
This was in the days before Finale so it was a real concern when most of the charts you were reading in school were hand written. Calligraphy was a requirement.
Ma7 and Maj7 were the logical alternatives back then but I always thought the triangle was the most elegant, akin to a mathematical symbol .
However triangle 7 (typed^7) is not at all akin to the logic behind a mathematical symbol. The 7 is meaningless and just fills up space.
I am very curious as to when and how the 7 was added to the triangle ?
Was it started here at iRealb?
I learned about the triangle from Abersold in the 70's and when I went to Berklee I was told to never use it because it could be interoperated as a circle or dim chord.
This was in the days before Finale so it was a real concern when most of the charts you were reading in school were hand written. Calligraphy was a requirement.
Ma7 and Maj7 were the logical alternatives back then but I always thought the triangle was the most elegant, akin to a mathematical symbol .
However triangle 7 (typed^7) is not at all akin to the logic behind a mathematical symbol. The 7 is meaningless and just fills up space.
I am very curious as to when and how the 7 was added to the triangle ?
Was it started here at iRealb?
Most users here write Δ7 to mean M7 or maj7.
Is the "7" unneeded and redundant? Probably. I just use Δ alone when space is tight.
Does *Δ7 imply the 9th (or 13th) ? Probably not.
Does *Δ9 or *Δ13 imply the major 7th? Usually.
Could using Δ without specifying additional qualities be interpreted somewhat ambiguously like the dominant 7alt ? Probably.
Don't most jazz players modify/substitute/alter chords regardless of what's written...?
(depends on their bandleader... and on who's paying for the work...)
The iReal pro conventions seem to be working for and understood by most users. A common musical language is good to have.
Music evolves. Its language has (and probably will continue to) as well.
This (similar, more lengthy and sometimes less polite) discussion may be of interest:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-68108.html
We all have to put up with little pangs of annoyance from time to time.
)BOB
Is the "7" unneeded and redundant? Probably. I just use Δ alone when space is tight.
Does *Δ7 imply the 9th (or 13th) ? Probably not.
Does *Δ9 or *Δ13 imply the major 7th? Usually.
Could using Δ without specifying additional qualities be interpreted somewhat ambiguously like the dominant 7alt ? Probably.
Don't most jazz players modify/substitute/alter chords regardless of what's written...?
(depends on their bandleader... and on who's paying for the work...)
The iReal pro conventions seem to be working for and understood by most users. A common musical language is good to have.
Music evolves. Its language has (and probably will continue to) as well.
This (similar, more lengthy and sometimes less polite) discussion may be of interest:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-68108.html
We all have to put up with little pangs of annoyance from time to time.
)BOB
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Bobsax
Well-known member
Well Bob
You make some interesting comments .
We probably agree it all comes down to the 3rd and 7th.
I remember this argument with David Baker back in the 70's regarding Δ9 .
His response was basically it didn't make that big a difference. Most players would put the 9 in.
It had no real effect on the quality or scale involved.
However , the 6 or 69chord was used when a root was in the melody.
So all you need is the Δ unless you want a 6 (or69) which is really a don't play the Major 7th sign.
I guess I can see the need for the Δ9 if it was an integral part of the harmony or for the play-along feature here.
Thanks Bob for the SOTW link , I'll get to asap
Sax players are so anal.
In the mean time I will continue to chastise the redundant symbol "Δ7"
I guess my suggestion that the next iReal update includes a feature to remove all Δ7's and replace them with just Δ will fall on deaf ears :S
You make some interesting comments .
We probably agree it all comes down to the 3rd and 7th.
I remember this argument with David Baker back in the 70's regarding Δ9 .
His response was basically it didn't make that big a difference. Most players would put the 9 in.
It had no real effect on the quality or scale involved.
However , the 6 or 69chord was used when a root was in the melody.
So all you need is the Δ unless you want a 6 (or69) which is really a don't play the Major 7th sign.
I guess I can see the need for the Δ9 if it was an integral part of the harmony or for the play-along feature here.
Thanks Bob for the SOTW link , I'll get to asap
Sax players are so anal.
In the mean time I will continue to chastise the redundant symbol "Δ7"
I guess my suggestion that the next iReal update includes a feature to remove all Δ7's and replace them with just Δ will fall on deaf ears :S
Me too.Every time I see the triangle with a 7 I have a little pang of annoyance
... (to answer your original question) no it was not us that started ^7 as an alternative to ^ by itself. However is has been convenient for us since we do not have room for 'maj'.
Personally I too learnt and prefer ^ without the 7 when meaning maj7. I wonder whether after some musicians started using ^9 that then the ^ was misinterpreted as meaning maj, so the 7 was added. Another point, ^7, ^9 and ^13 in the same chart make it clear.
We do offer both options so if you are annoyed, you can always change it (it annoys me too but I cannot be bothered changing them—sigh so I am used to it now).
Using ^9 (or ^13) might be specific for some reason, for instance the melody being the 9th or another instrument would be playing that note (big band) so the guitarist or pianist would be given this specific chord quality so they can voice it appropriately (and it gives them more voicings to choose from).
Bobsax
Well-known member
OMG!! Those people can talk.http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-68108.html[/url]
We all have to put up with little pangs of annoyance from time to time.
I used to contribute quite a bit but after I hit 1000 posts I thought I'd better get off my butt and do something constructive
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marcosfilho
New member
Is ir possible to write C7M instead C^ ?
Bobsax
Well-known member
Do you mean would the player know what it is? If you put it in, it would probably show an error when it goes to play it. You could write in C^ in the measure so the player knows what to do, and add C7M either as an alt chord or text.
Obviously if you are not using the player it will input, but might not show in the chart fonts we use.
marcosfilho
New member
Here in Brazil we use 7M to mean seventh major, like Maj7 in USA. So, C7M = C, E, G, B. Here in Brazil we also use parentheses to separate the different changes, such as Cm7(b5) or C7M(#9), similar to Jazz Session app. I thought iReal was more flexible with other types of chord symbols. The fact that the player does not recognize is no problem for me. Thanks.
