Atljazzman
Member
This is about as close as you can get to having the bass play the bassline to so what by Miles Davis.
So What Bassline by Miles Davis
So What Bassline by Miles Davis
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So What - Miles Davis
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Atljazzman
Member
It's not perfect but it can be amusing.
nimbleswitch
Well-known member
I enjoy trying to stretch the limits of iReal Pro, too. Yours, here, is very interesting!
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Kalokagathon
Well-known member
Hi. Interesting chart.
Remember to set the correct key in the "info" section, so transpositions and key display will be consistent.
Happy playing.
Remember to set the correct key in the "info" section, so transpositions and key display will be consistent.
Happy playing.
nimbleswitch
Well-known member
"So What" (for bassists)
A chart for bassists to use to play Paul Chambers' opening solo in Miles' "So What" against an answering backing track. It's just the meat part of PC's solo played twice to a coda. I had to stretch it out over double the measures in order to get a dotted-quarter-&-eighth-note effect in the chord player's response on Playback, so the chart looks bigger than on paper. Functionally, I guess it would be in "4/8" time, although it reads in 4/4 on this chart. Each beat here would be an eighth note on a regular chart, and every two measures here would be one measure. If you're having trouble with the timing, try using the drummer to add a drumstick click track for a while. PC's opening DABCDECD starts on the 2nd beat in measure 7 of the Intro since the sheet music I have scores the first seven bass notes as pick-ups. So the final D lands on beat one of the first measure of the A section. Play it through, you'll hear it.
So What (for bassists) - Miles Davis
A chart for bassists to use to play Paul Chambers' opening solo in Miles' "So What" against an answering backing track. It's just the meat part of PC's solo played twice to a coda. I had to stretch it out over double the measures in order to get a dotted-quarter-&-eighth-note effect in the chord player's response on Playback, so the chart looks bigger than on paper. Functionally, I guess it would be in "4/8" time, although it reads in 4/4 on this chart. Each beat here would be an eighth note on a regular chart, and every two measures here would be one measure. If you're having trouble with the timing, try using the drummer to add a drumstick click track for a while. PC's opening DABCDECD starts on the 2nd beat in measure 7 of the Intro since the sheet music I have scores the first seven bass notes as pick-ups. So the final D lands on beat one of the first measure of the A section. Play it through, you'll hear it.
So What (for bassists) - Miles Davis
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ChicoTrpt84
Member
HAHAHAHa this is too funny!!! Good try though.
nimbleswitch
Well-known member
Try this version of "So What."
Try this with Long Notes Style, 360 bpm, Piano & Strings set halfway up, Acoustic Bass set full up, Drums set full down, and Reverb maybe a quarter .
So What Bassline - jhc - Miles Davis
Try this with Long Notes Style, 360 bpm, Piano & Strings set halfway up, Acoustic Bass set full up, Drums set full down, and Reverb maybe a quarter .
So What Bassline - jhc - Miles Davis
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nimbleswitch
Well-known member
This might be of some interest to you guys, too.
This is the opposite approach: It's for bassists to play bass against the chords. I already posted this chart last month,
with additional discussion:
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/quot-So-What-quot-(for-bassists)&p=27021.10955/#post-27021
Song reposted below for this discussion:
So What (for bassists) - Miles Davis
This is the opposite approach: It's for bassists to play bass against the chords. I already posted this chart last month,
with additional discussion:
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/quot-So-What-quot-(for-bassists)&p=27021.10955/#post-27021
Song reposted below for this discussion:
So What (for bassists) - Miles Davis
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nimbleswitch
Well-known member
Thanks, Bob.
Kalokagathon
Well-known member
Nimbleswitch, remember to set the correct key in the song info, otherwise transposition will not work correctly (or at least, not intuitively...).
It's set in Am, but should be Dm.
nimbleswitch
Well-known member
Well, I can only tell you that I have examined six different printed sheet music charts of "So What." All six have no sharps or flats in their key signatures. And all six showed the bassist's first-line to be DABCDECD. Three of them claim the originally published key was C major. The other three claim it was A minor.
I haven't found any sheet music for "So What" written in one flat, which is what D minor would be. Just because the Dm chord dominates, does not make it written in the key of D minor.
I once asked a 40+-year pro jazz group leader how he knew whether to call a certain tune in E flat or C minor. He said he wouldn't call either one. He said he would call the piece in "3 flats" and then indicate what chord it started on.
I haven't found any sheet music for "So What" written in one flat, which is what D minor would be. Just because the Dm chord dominates, does not make it written in the key of D minor.
I once asked a 40+-year pro jazz group leader how he knew whether to call a certain tune in E flat or C minor. He said he wouldn't call either one. He said he would call the piece in "3 flats" and then indicate what chord it started on.
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D Dorian is a mode based on the C major scale so has no key signature (nothing to do with F major). It should be set in D minor in song info.
Kalokagathon
Well-known member
Hello Nimbleswitch.
The accidentals on a chart (for certain songs) are for reference. Often I find they're plain wrong, or for "comfort" purposes (as in, simply a reference for referring to a song's key when talking about it, or calling it in a gig).
The *real* indication of a song's key is that song's harmonic progression itself, or - as in "SW"'s case, which has no real progression - its tonal center.
"SW" is "in" Dm, since that is the main chord throughout (whatever mode that would/could be), and our brain feels that as a resting point. That is what we mean/indicate by saying a song is *in* a certain key.
The B-section is a tension-creating episode, perceived as such by our brain because A) the primary acoustical reference is both the (starting and persistent) Dm chord, and the bass line defining the note D as a central rest-point, and B) the chord a half-step above Dm creates tension because when we return to Dm we feel rest - so we call D the tonal center, or Tonic.
Our ears tell us this *before* the chart's existence, which is just convenience.
Ergo, a "SW" chart with no key signature is not indicating the song is in C, or Am - it "indicates" nothing in regard to key; it's an absent sign, not a sign (even though dflat's reasoning is also valid).
Further, I would regard a Bb in key as valid in indicating Dm, but obviously I'd see - by reading the bass line - that a Dm dorian would be more appropriate to improvise with than a Dm natural (but of course I'm free to do many other things as a soloist, in my creative freedom... ;-) )
Saying "SW" is in Am would indicate the note A is its tonal center - but nothing in the original song recording (or the music written in common charts) pushes my ears and eyes in perceiving A as an important note...
That is why I say "it's in Dm", and set it as such in the iReal Pro chart info. Otherwise, if one were to say "play SW in Am", I'd play "A-E-F#-G-A-B-G-A" (note A as tonal center).
I hope the reasoning is clear. I posted here instead of PMing you, though lengthy, because perhaps others can benefit from the analysis
P.S.: short, incomplete answer -
you say
The accidentals on a chart (for certain songs) are for reference. Often I find they're plain wrong, or for "comfort" purposes (as in, simply a reference for referring to a song's key when talking about it, or calling it in a gig).
The *real* indication of a song's key is that song's harmonic progression itself, or - as in "SW"'s case, which has no real progression - its tonal center.
"SW" is "in" Dm, since that is the main chord throughout (whatever mode that would/could be), and our brain feels that as a resting point. That is what we mean/indicate by saying a song is *in* a certain key.
The B-section is a tension-creating episode, perceived as such by our brain because A) the primary acoustical reference is both the (starting and persistent) Dm chord, and the bass line defining the note D as a central rest-point, and B) the chord a half-step above Dm creates tension because when we return to Dm we feel rest - so we call D the tonal center, or Tonic.
Our ears tell us this *before* the chart's existence, which is just convenience.
Ergo, a "SW" chart with no key signature is not indicating the song is in C, or Am - it "indicates" nothing in regard to key; it's an absent sign, not a sign (even though dflat's reasoning is also valid).
Further, I would regard a Bb in key as valid in indicating Dm, but obviously I'd see - by reading the bass line - that a Dm dorian would be more appropriate to improvise with than a Dm natural (but of course I'm free to do many other things as a soloist, in my creative freedom... ;-) )
Saying "SW" is in Am would indicate the note A is its tonal center - but nothing in the original song recording (or the music written in common charts) pushes my ears and eyes in perceiving A as an important note...
That is why I say "it's in Dm", and set it as such in the iReal Pro chart info. Otherwise, if one were to say "play SW in Am", I'd play "A-E-F#-G-A-B-G-A" (note A as tonal center).
I hope the reasoning is clear. I posted here instead of PMing you, though lengthy, because perhaps others can benefit from the analysis
P.S.: short, incomplete answer
-you say
, but that is *exactly* why our perception makes us say the song is in Dm...
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nimbleswitch
Well-known member
Wow, I had no idea! This is all extremely interesting, and now I understand why my friend doesn't refer to a key name when calling a tune at a gig. For "So What" he would call "No sharps, no flats, starts with a D minor," or some such. So in future, when I see a chart with no sharps or flats, I won't know whether to consider it as being in C major, A minor, D Dorian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, E Phrygian, or whatever. So my inclination will be to say nothing at all. Since iRP makes me choose something in Info, I might as well choose C major for everything and let each individual choose what to change it to. I mean, if musicnotes.com can't decide between C major and A minor for "So What," and they're both wrong, well, what basis would I, a mere amateur, have to guess at all. Whew! This all has me beat.
Thanks for your comments, you two. Quite an eye opener!
Thanks for your comments, you two. Quite an eye opener!
Kalokagathon
Well-known member
Nimbleswitch, the sarcasm is out of place.
I went to look at musicnotes.com's charts, and from what I can surmise, the key indication in the chart info is automatically compiled. I believe no serious musician would (could) say that "SW" is in Am (and even less so, in C major!).
What probably happened is that whoever made the chart in Finale, or other scoring program, didn't like the Bb in key. Fine, a legit choice. The program doesn't have "Dm Dorian" in scale choices when there are no accidentals, so person making score chose either C or Am TO DISPLAY NO FLATS (scoring choice), and file info from which metadata is extracted showed either C major or A minor (program limited in key signature naming).
None of these actions and consequences have anything to do with the song's perceived key, as I tried to explain to you in my preceding post.
i could even write the chart in Finale with non-tonal key signature, insert no accidentals, and send it to musicnotes.com - the chart info would then say "no key". Not very realistic, for a normal song.
I tried to go beyond program and website shortcomings, going out of my way to explain something to you about musicality, perception, and musical theory. Difficult to do in a forum, but I tried.
I'm sorry you took it personally instead of learning something...
If you'd like, PM me and I'll clarify better in another medium.
Best regards.
David
I went to look at musicnotes.com's charts, and from what I can surmise, the key indication in the chart info is automatically compiled. I believe no serious musician would (could) say that "SW" is in Am (and even less so, in C major!).
What probably happened is that whoever made the chart in Finale, or other scoring program, didn't like the Bb in key. Fine, a legit choice. The program doesn't have "Dm Dorian" in scale choices when there are no accidentals, so person making score chose either C or Am TO DISPLAY NO FLATS (scoring choice), and file info from which metadata is extracted showed either C major or A minor (program limited in key signature naming).
None of these actions and consequences have anything to do with the song's perceived key, as I tried to explain to you in my preceding post.
i could even write the chart in Finale with non-tonal key signature, insert no accidentals, and send it to musicnotes.com - the chart info would then say "no key". Not very realistic, for a normal song.
I tried to go beyond program and website shortcomings, going out of my way to explain something to you about musicality, perception, and musical theory. Difficult to do in a forum, but I tried.
I'm sorry you took it personally instead of learning something...
If you'd like, PM me and I'll clarify better in another medium.
Best regards.
David
nimbleswitch
Well-known member
No, no, I assure you I was not being sarcastic. I do find this considerably exasperating, however! I see that what I had thought was a fairly easy, almost mathematical determination requires much more feel for music theory than I have or am likely to acquire. I truly believe that I do not have the training and experience necessary to consider the factors you guys point out here. Although I really do feel like doing it, I won't actually write everything in C major -- I'll contnue to take my best shot at the correct key, but I won't be at all surprised or offended if you guys correct it for me. I'll edit my posts then, like I've edited my "So What" charts now. Again, thanks to you both!
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nimbleswitch
Well-known member
Atljazzman, a question . .
How did you manage to get your /E and /F bass notes to sound in the second (upper) register during Playback? My /E and /F notes sound in the lowest register, which is an octave lower than they really need to be for this. (I tried using Dm/E like you did, but that didn't make any difference. Neither did copying your Dm/E and Dm/F and pasting them into my chart.)
I'm running the latest iRP version on an iPhone 5C with the latest iOS version. What all are you running? And do you compose iRP charts on any other devices?
Any ideas regarding this, you guys? (or anyone?) Does it have to do with my choice of Long Notes Style, perhaps?
Jack
How did you manage to get your /E and /F bass notes to sound in the second (upper) register during Playback? My /E and /F notes sound in the lowest register, which is an octave lower than they really need to be for this. (I tried using Dm/E like you did, but that didn't make any difference. Neither did copying your Dm/E and Dm/F and pasting them into my chart.)
I'm running the latest iRP version on an iPhone 5C with the latest iOS version. What all are you running? And do you compose iRP charts on any other devices?
Any ideas regarding this, you guys? (or anyone?) Does it have to do with my choice of Long Notes Style, perhaps?
Jack
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It is currently not possible to specify a particular octave a voicing nor bass note will reside in. The player engine is slightly random, taking into account (to a limited extent) voice leading, previous note(s) (and which octave they are in).
I would have expected if you played it a few times it might have changed octaves.
But the Long notes style might be more restricted because it was originally designed for practice, might not have as many variations, and does not need to play as much rhythmically (different voicings of the same chord) so it is slower to evolve before having to figure out the next chord symbol.
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