Realbook Real Book Changes Chords

[Bobsax]

I searched Realbook Real Book Changes Chords with nothing in the title but I know there are many charts that are RealBook chords often they have RB in the title.
Question;
1)Did the Founder use Realbook chords with the original changes (if so I don't know why I don't have My One and Only Love?
2) Is there a playlist of the current Hal Leonard Realbooks?

 

[pdxdjazz]

You may be interested in some of this discussion:
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Chart-Accuracy.10684/

Also:
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Real-Book-I-list.10464/
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Real-Book-II-list.4512/
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Real-Book-III-list.10544/

We have not checked these charts for accuracy or player compatibility.
Because of slight differences in the charts, downloading these playlists may result in many nearly identical duplicate charts in your library.
)BOB

 

[Bobsax]

Thanks PDX
I was not able to ask PrimeSax or Martinchococo if they actually went through the books and changed the chords or just put the real book songs in a playlist ? Do you by chance know?
b

You may be interested in some of this discussion:
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Chart-Accuracy.10684/

Also:
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Real-Book-I-list.10464/
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Real-Book-II-list.4512/
https://forums.irealpro.com/threads/Real-Book-III-list.10544/

We have not checked these charts for accuracy or player compatibility.
Because of slight differences in the charts, downloading these playlists may result in many nearly identical duplicate charts in your library.
)BOB

 

[pdxdjazz]

Nope, I don't know.
)BOB

 

[Bobsax]

Nope, I don't know.
)BOB

I'm not sure either. . I downloaded the RB1 playlist and checked a few tunes and they were correct but I want to find out from the OP if the whole playlist has been checked before I keep them.
I'm loving the new cloud setup . I was able to delete the playlist and its songs. I checked by searching ALL OF ME on the mac. AOM3 was the one from the RB1 playlist. I went and erased the playlist on my iPad and it (and AOM3) disappeared on the mac.

 

[CyrilleB]

From my personal experience, I don't trust any fake book, even the so-called "legal" ones. They are full of mistakes. Before learning a tune, I always check the original or the most popular recording for chord accuracy.
The same thing applies with iRealPro charts. For jazz tunes, it can be tricky, because there are so many versions of the same tune and often with different reharmonization (and lots of freedom of interpreting chord changes). Most of the time, I would go with the original recording or most popular version. For any other versions, I usually specify the recording artist in the song title. It's also not a good idea to post a chart in the forum by simply copying it from a fake book without verifying the chord changes.

 

[jazzwalk]

Sher Music jazz chart reputably have the most correctly named chord changes; has anyone here compiled a listing of only Sher Music jazz charts?

 

[Bobsax]

From my personal experience, I don't trust any fake book, even the so-called "legal" ones. They are full of mistakes. Before learning a tune, I always check the original or the most popular recording for chord accuracy.
The same thing applies with iRealPro charts. For jazz tunes, it can be tricky, because there are so many versions of the same tune and often with different reharmonization (and lots of freedom of interpreting chord changes). Most of the time, I would go with the original recording or most popular version. For any other versions, I usually specify the recording artist in the song title. It's also not a good idea to post a chart in the forum by simply copying it from a fake book without verifying the chord changes.

Cyrille
I am soooo... tired of your argument. Of course we should all listen to as many recordings as possible. I always do and there are often many chordal variations especially in turnarounds . There is the occasional obvious wrong chord but mostly the chords work and thats what counts.
What nobody seems to get is WE NEED THE CHORDS TO MATCH THE BOOKS because lead and horn players may be using the books and rhythm players using iReal . Or worse a piano player using the books while the bass uses iReal . It's a great start and I commend those that are doing it and labeling the tune "RB" in the title.
__Rant__
Sorry if I'm offending anybody here but I am sick and tired of hearing "These chords suck" and I'm sick and tired of everybodys stupid reharmanazations . I got over that in collage at Berklee . Many of us don't care about your science projects.

 

[raymb1]

You need to remember that almost all the big name players play "re-harms. Bill, Chick and Herbie aren't looking at fake books. I would rather play their changes than those in any fake book. A lot of the re-harms in this forum are more the norm for working musicians than looking at a fakebook. I look at fake book for the melody only and I and my friends know when a re-harm works better than the fakebook chords.

 

[Bobsax]

I would rather play their changes than those in any fake book. A lot of the re-harms in this forum are more the norm for working musicians than looking at a fakebook. I look at fake book for the melody only and I and my friends know when a re-harm works better than the fakebook chords.

Knock yourself out and re-harm till the cows com home. I have lots of personal arrangements with non traditional harmonies . Sometimes that means less chords like the illegal RB Softly Morning Sunrise.
What I feel is of paramount importance is WE NEED THE CHORDS TO MATCH THE BOOKS and put RB in the title. The dumbest thing somebody can do is have a playlist that says RB2 and it's just the changes from the Jazz 1300 playlist. You don't need a playlist for that. just use the search box.

WE NEED THE CHORDS TO MATCH THE BOOKS so that when a tune is requested and the leader is using the book the piano and bass know the changes he/she is expecting.

 

[CyrilleB]

@Bobsax, you're free to make exact duplicates of any fake books you like in your own device. I just don't see the point of spreading charts with mistakes (chords or structure) in the forum. The advantage of iRealPro is that any chart can be edited very easily and we should use that advantage to correct them when necessary.
I'm not taking about different reharmonization, substitutions or turnarounds, but real mistakes.
For ex, in the Real Book 1, there are 4 bars missing in the middle of "Desafinado". I can give you many other examples.

 

[engelbach]

Bobsax,

WE NEED THE CHORDS TO MATCH THE BOOKS so that when a tune is requested and the leader is using the book the piano and bass know the changes he/she is expecting.

It really depends upon whom you're playing with.

Experienced jazz players rarely need to have Real Books on hand in order to play standards, and we tend to agree on the "street changes" to tunes, regardless of what the Real Books say.

My band never used Real Books on a gig. If one of us was not sure about the changes we just listened to each other.

Cheers,
Jer

 

[CyrilleB]

For using iRealPro as a play-along practicing tool, it may be more pleasant having charts with sophisticated harmonic variations. But for using it as a reference for live performance, simple basic chord charts would give more freedom of interpretation.

 

[Bobsax]

@Bobsax, you're free to make exact duplicates of any fake books you like in your own device. I just don't see the point of spreading charts with mistakes (chords or structure) in the forum. The advantage of iRealPro is that any chart can be edited very easily and we should use that advantage to correct them when necessary.
I'm not taking about different reharmonization, substitutions or turnarounds, but real mistakes.
For ex, in the Real Book 1, there are 4 bars missing in the middle of "Desafinado". I can give you many other examples.

Goodness0: I don't know anybody still using the old illegal books. I thought everybody threw them out when Hal Leonard did them back in 04? They were $13 at first just to get folks to switch.
I have been referring to them all this time . I remember the problems with Desafinado but it has been fixed. Everything is usable in the HL Realbooks now as far as I have encountered and I've been using them for the last 15 years .

Bobsax,


It really depends upon whom you're playing with.

Experienced jazz players rarely need to have Real Books on hand in order to play standards, and we tend to agree on the "street changes" to tunes, regardless of what the Real Books say.

My band never used Real Books on a gig. If one of us was not sure about the changes we just listened to each other.

Cheers,
Jer

Well.... I am a very experienced Jazz player and I hang out with very experienced jazz players. There are a few bass players out there that get away without the books because they hear the chordal movment (if they're good) I don't know any melody players that have all the books memorized. We can all fake it for sessions but when it's a paying gig it needs to sound like everybody is on the same page.
There was a time when I played Joy Spring and Ceora often enough that they were memorized but I'm not working with those guys anymore and I'd need the book for it and I would want to be sure my rhythm section had the same changes as the book.

 

[engelbach]

Well.... I am a very experienced Jazz player and I hang out with very experienced jazz players. There are a few bass players out there that get away without the books because they hear the chordal movment (if they're good) I don't know any melody players that have all the books memorized. We can all fake it for sessions but when it's a paying gig it needs to sound like everybody is on the same page.
There was a time when I played Joy Spring and Ceora often enough that they were memorized but I'm not working with those guys anymore and I'd need the book for it and I would want to be sure my rhythm section had the same changes as the book.

Sure, there are plenty of jazz tunes in the Real Books that one rarely plays. But jazz standards and Tin Pan Alley are pretty ... well ... standard, and kind of important for everyone to know. Joy Spring and Ceora included.

I found that most professional bass players can play just about anything. My bass player, Ed Fuqua, knew the changes to far more tunes than I, but he was easy to follow. The only time we used music stands on a gig, with sheet music, was when we had special requests in advance for tunes we were unlikely to know, like movie themes or pop tunes.

These days I don't have as big a repertoire as I had when I was gigging every week, so, in addition to tunes I know, when I play I keep a loose-leaf book with about 50-100 tunes that I like that I'm too lazy to remember or learn.

I'm not knocking the Real Books. I learned songs years ago from the old fake books, which had all the wrong changes, and the Real Books were an improvement on those. But for reference I still keep the old fake books 1000 Songs Volumes 1 and 2, and 500 Songs, Volume 3, and the old Modern Jazz Fake Books 1 and 2.

Cheers,
Jer

 

[engelbach]

For using iRealPro as a play-along practicing tool, it may be more pleasant having charts with sophisticated harmonic variations. But for using it as a reference for live performance, simple basic chord charts would give more freedom of interpretation.

Excellent point, if one is using the sounds of the chords.

I use iReal Pro just for backing tracks, so I'm really only interested in the bass line and drums. I can ignore the chord symbols unless I'm playing a special arrangement.

Cheers,
Jer

 

[raymb1]

The guys I work with and I'm sure the guys Jerry worked with, probably Cyrille too, could go on a 3-4 hour gig and not look at a sheet of music. Everyone just knows the right changes to play. That's what I call experience and knowing the tunes. There are many tunes, especially standards, that sound too hokey when you play the Real Book changes. Experienced players know when the sub chords are needed.

 

[Bobsax]

The guys I work with and I'm sure the guys Jerry worked with, probably Cyrille too, could go on a 3-4 hour gig and not look at a sheet of music. Everyone just knows the right changes to play. That's what I call experience and knowing the tunes. There are many tunes, especially standards, that sound too hokey when you play the Real Book changes. Experienced players know when the sub chords are needed.

What I don’t think you guys get is when you’re playing a horn or melody instrument and you need to have at your fingertips the entire repertoire of the realbooks 123 and 4. You never know what request You may get and you need to know the rhythm section is going to play the changes you have in front of you .
Are you guys honestly telling me you play with people who have 2000 songs ( that means the melody Not just the chords ) memorized? Well that’s pretty good those guys are better than me.
It is also besides the point. That is not the premise of this thread. I would hope that we can start a sticky thread where people can submit the Hal Leonard (or whatever realbook) changes and label them appropriately .

 

[CyrilleB]

I agree, it's a good thing to properly label playlists, so people know what they are expecting when they import a playlist.
As for using sheet music or iRealPro for live performance, yes, this is a different topic and everyone may have a different reason for using them or not. As for me, playing gigs with more than 20 different singers where each of them are singing in different keys, it's convenient to have a playlist for each singer in their respective keys, so I don't need to bother them asking for the key everytime. Even if I have the chord chart memorized, I just take a quick look at the chart to make sure of the key, and I'm ready to go.
But for horns/lead players, that's another story, as they need to play the head as well

 

[Keith88]

Good to participate in a thread addressed by many of the most active forum participants.

There are many important points that have been discussed:

• Like Jerry, I am a pianist who only uses bass and drum sounds for backing. I regard the chord symbols only as a memory aid and often prefer "plain vanilla" symbols. I'll more sophisicated chord alterations on the fly.
• I rarely play the exact chords found in any fake book. I rarely use a chord chart that someone else has previously posted without at least a small amout of editing. I rarely post a chord chart with the original fakebook or sheet music chords. I like to listen to different performances and take from them what I like. I agree with Bobsax that this creates issues when a group of musicians use somewhat different chord charts for the same song. Most frequently, when I post a chart, I will follow the title with "(k ver)" to indicate that I the arrangement is mine, rather than standard.
• Most of us have many playlists on our devices, so many as to make things unwieldy. I suggested some time ago that a folder system be implemented.
• Like Cyrille, I play for many singers who sing in different keys, and who may use different introductions and codas. My solution is to make a duplicate chart and follow the title with the singer's name. This requires different playlists for each. Brilliant minds think alike!

I think the most important thing to do is to listen to each other. Sure, we may be doing things somewhat differently, but we do make things work out in the end.